Geoff Bennett:
From his roots in West Virginia to his pivotal role in some of Washington’s biggest battles, former Democratic Senator, now independent Joe Manchin built a career on bucking partisan lines and pushing for pragmatism over ideology.
In his new memoir, he recounts untold stories from the Senate, interactions with the White House, and outlines a vision of leadership rooted in what he sees as principle and collaboration. The book is “Dead Center: In Defense of Common Sense.”
Former Senator Joe Manchin joins us now.
Welcome back to the “News Hour.”
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin (I-WV):
Good to be with you, Geoff.
Geoff Bennett:
In reading this book, you are far tougher on Democrats than you are on Republicans. You paint Democrats as the main driver of government overreach and dysfunction. Was that your intention in writing this book…
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
No, I was…
Geoff Bennett:
… offering a rebuke of your own former party?
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
Well, first of all, I have been a Democrat my entire life, up until last year. The only people I caucus was a Democrat.
And I saw the dysfunction, and then basically I couldn’t take it anymore. So I can only give you a synopsis of what — how do Democrats like me leave? Now, since the November election, 160,000-plus more have left the Democrat registration. And I would like to tell all of my friends, Democrat friends, that you have got to figure out what your core is of your base.
When you make a mistake, just say we made a mistake, and we’re going to fix that. So I never joined another party. I didn’t go to the Republican Party. And I said, they probably wouldn’t like me any better. But I don’t know the inner workings of the caucuses of the Republican Party since I never caucused with them.
But I just knew I didn’t want to be associated with this party dysfunction I see on both sides.
Geoff Bennett:
Well, you said in the book that you actually wanted Republicans to win the Senate majority in 2024…
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
I did.
Geoff Bennett:
… believing that they were the only hope in preserving the Senate filibuster as a guardrail against partisan rule.
Is that a view that you still hold, given that Senate Republicans recently changed the filibuster rules to push forward…
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
No, they haven’t changed the filibuster, no.
Geoff Bennett:
Well, to push forward with the lower-level executive branch…
(CROSSTALK)
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
Well, what they want to do is, they’re basically bundling them right now, OK? And I have told them I think that is wrong. I have called my Republican friends and I said, what you’re doing is, you’re snipping around the edges. And what goes around comes around, because, if you can do that, when the Democrats come in, they will do more.
The difference while I said that back in 2024 was this reason. Chuck Schumer and the Democratic Party already said that they wanted to get rid of the filibuster. They tried and pushed me and Kyrsten Sinema. We wouldn’t do it. OK? And that stopped them. Or they’d have done it then.
They did it in 2013 when Harry Reid — I begged him not to do it. And I said, when you do that, you will rue the day you did. And they have, because what happened then, and then the Supreme Court, when the Republicans got it did it. And all they had to do was just sit down and work with each other.
There’s a way to do this to allow a president to have his Cabinet and his staff. They’re playing games with this. Democrats are doing it and the Republicans have done it. That has to stop.
And so now they’re saying we have got you — so we’re going to bundle a bunch. That’s wrong, OK, because when you take the participation from the minority, then you’re basically — basic — what you have done is, you’re watering down the whole principle of this Senate. The Senate is the most deliberate body.
The reason the Senate has worked so long and so good for so many is because, when it does something, it’s lasting, OK? And the minority always has participation. So you might not be the majority party, but you’re just not sitting on the sidelines. You’re still participating. You’re still involved.
That was — that’s the beauty and the brilliance of our founding fathers and how they set it up.
Geoff Bennett:
What you’re describing sounds pretty simple and straightforward. Why isn’t it simple and straightforward in practice these days?
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
Nothing is simple and straightforward, because it looks like one side is giving up to the other — or giving into the other.
The political dichotomy of what’s going on and the duopoly of two businesses, what you have is two major corporations. One’s called the Republican corporation. One’s called the Democrat corporation. And big money is driving this. And their business model is fear and hatred and tactics of that.
And the more they can keep you, the public, afraid of the other side, to the point that you almost hate the other side and all the propaganda that goes out, you can’t look like you’re working with a person you just told me I had to be scared to death of. It’s gotten so far out of hand. And that’s why I said, how do you bring it back?
And we have contemplated a third party. I really think that the country is ready for an independent American party. And the reason I say independent American party is that most people that are still participating in voting are registered no party affiliation. That’s the highest percentage. And more are going in that direction than going to the respective parties.
Geoff Bennett:
Yes.
You describe yourself in the book as not being beholden to either party, but there are those critics who say that you wielded your swing vote power when you were in the Senate to stall progress. How do you respond to that?
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
I never stalled progress. What I did is, I basically just kept lobbying for common sense. I give you a few examples.
If people were upset with the amount of things that they wanted to do with the BBB bill…
Geoff Bennett:
Build Back Better, that was…
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
Build Back Better was Joe…
Geoff Bennett:
… the $3.5 trillion…
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
They said it was $6 trillion, and then they said it was 3.5. After — just in the last year, they evaluated that bill. It would have been more than $10 trillion. They gave away everything but the country store. Everything was given away.
And the bottom line was, there was no accountability and responsibility. The book that we have written there I hope gives you an idea that people might have had thinking different thought process about me, thinking I’m trying to grandstand, I wanted to be in the middle. I didn’t want to be in the middle.
But I have always voted in the middle. And if you’re always voting and no one controls you, guess what happens? When it’s 50-50 and 49 are already one way, I’m the one person. Then the bullseye, the target comes on you. I said, I became a spear catcher. I didn’t volunteer for that position. But I said, this doesn’t make sense. I’m not going to vote for it. It doesn’t make sense.
And I have always been that way. So the book basically says how I was raised, and I have told him this in that little town of Farmington. I was raised that basically you will be held accountable and responsible for your words and action. When you say something and it’s not basically contained and put back in perspective, action will happen, and usually it’s not good.
So you are always going to be held responsible. And I never forgot that. And I have been very careful with the words I choose. I don’t denigrate people. I don’t call them names. I said, listen, and I’m not going to campaign against a sitting colleague. I never have.
But this is a very hostile working environment in Congress. You’re expected to get the other side, even if it’s your friend that might have a D by the name, if your an R, or vice versa. You’re expected to be against them all the time. It doesn’t work that way where I come from. You can’t tell me to be my friend and then go to work every day with me as my co-worker and try to get me fired.
We’re going to have a conversation.
Geoff Bennett:
This book’s title, “Dead Center,” it struck me while reading this book there are two interpretations of this title. One is the one that you intended, the other being that the political center is dead.
It suggests that polarization has hollowed out the middle ground and that there’s no room for centrism or bipartisan compromise. Has polarization killed the political center?
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
It’s made it almost impossible to have a center, even though a person comes and they’re a very centrist person. They might have a D or an R by their name because of the two-party systems to be involved the way it’s set up now.
And they go to Washington. They get elected. They have got to pick a side. Wait a minute, I really don’t want to go that far left or that far right, but I really want to work with both.
Well, I’m sorry, you got to pick a side. I really believe that the country is ready for an independent American party that will force the ones — we want the Grand Old Party to be grand again? You want the Democrat Party to be responsible and compassionate? OK, well, I think they’re further from that today than they have ever been. And they’re not going to come back because they’re getting rewarded for this horrible behavior.
Boom, let’s bring it back.
Geoff Bennett:
The book is “Dead Center: In Defense of Common Sense.”
Former Senator Joe Manchin, thanks so much for being here.
Fmr. Sen. Joe Manchin:
Appreciate you. Thank you.
