Eighteen months after the historic Lutsen Lodge went up in flames in February 2024, the public still has no answers about the fire.
State Fire Marshal Daniel Krier spoke with Morning Edition producer Gracie Stockton about the ongoing investigation.
Fire investigation drags on
“I can very much appreciate and understand the public's desire for answers and kind of getting anxious and really wanting those answers, and we do too,” Krier said. “We want to make sure that when we give those answers, we are giving confident, accurate answers. It's a very slow, methodical process to examine that fire scene. And then you add to it that fire, by its nature, is a destructive force. And so, unlike a homicide investigation or other crimes, where the evidence might be more readily accessible and available, we have evidence that can be destroyed.”
Lutsen is Krier’s first major fire investigation since taking the helm at the Minnesota Department of Public Safety State Fire Marshal division in September 2023. His prior post was fire marshal for the City of Brooklyn Park.
As to why the investigation is complex, “We have a number of factors that really, really make it difficult to give a quick answer,” Krier said. First, the building is a total loss, meaning it takes longer to comb through the sheer amount of physical evidence. Second, there are a lot of people associated with the lodge, from employees and owners to visitors and even contractors. Third, high public interest.
“So that can also increase the amount of time, because a lot of people want to share information,” Krier said. “Maybe the best way to put it is that we spend an equal amount of time trying to prove what didn't start the fire.”
Chain of evidence
The fire marshal's office relies on techniques like looking at burn patterns, taking evidentiary samples and examining equipment and appliances, even light switches. Krier said lab samples are processed by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension’s trace analysis lab, which has a dedicated forensic scientist just for fire debris analysis. However, it can take six to nine months to turn that evidence around.
“I think the challenge can be the overwhelming workload, and prior to becoming a fire marshal, I was a chemist at the Department of Health, so I'm familiar with some of the assays, the analyses that she has to conduct,” Krier continued. “And those aren't as simple as draw a sample and put it into a machine.”
Each sample can take several days to process, he said.
“Alongside that, we continue to conduct interviews as well as reviewing any electronic footage from security cameras, doorbell cameras, cell phone data and other digital records,” he said.
Interview process
Krier said, while he hasn’t directly been involved in interviews related to Lutsen Lodge, the fire marshal’s office really wants to talk to the last person in the room or area where the fire started, or the point of origin.
“What did they see? What do they remember seeing? We're then going to talk to people who have familiarity with that building, with that room. Was there any work going on? Do you have any contractors hired? What's the scope of that work?” Krier said.
That includes people who’ve stayed at the Lodge, staff, ownership, managers and anyone who’s done renovations on the building.
“And then we also talk to first responders. What did you see when you first arrived? How did you see this fire grow or change? As you did your operations, how did that impact the fire? Because those can be factors that help us identify where the fire started, a little bit as to what was burning, and then we can continue to proceed with the investigation after that,” Krier said.
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Taking the case to court
“It's a team approach of sharing the evidence we have to see how that might fit into the scope of our partner’s investigation, as well as the information they have that fits into ours,” Krier said. Often, interviews are conducted jointly by law enforcement and the fire investigator. Under the DPS’s umbrella, the BCA’s various divisions, like the financial crimes bureau, can get involved, too.
The fire marshal’s role extends to the point of identifying the area of origin and cause of a fire. If they find the fire was set intentionally, law enforcement digs into potential motives and suspects. Ultimately, investigators hand over their findings to a county attorney.
Should the attorney bring charges against a suspect, fire investigators become expert witnesses and can testify in court.
However, getting arson charges to stick can be difficult, again because fire inherently is “a destructive force. There may not always be strong enough evidence to prove that there was an intentionally set fire by an individual,” Krier said. “In my experience, it may not always come out as arson, but it may end up being insurance fraud, as a common compromise, maybe even sometimes a settlement between those charges.”
Generally, insured properties have a private fire investigator assess the situation, too, in “a separate but parallel investigation.” The scope and authority vary, but the methodology is similar, “and then they have their own different level of burden of proof as well for any type of whether they want to accept or deny the reject the insurance claim.”
The fire marshal's office has more time on its side now. During the last legislative session, lawmakers approved extending the statute of limitations for first-degree arson from five years to 10.
Krier says anyone with information can call the State Fire Marshal’s arson hotline at 800-723-2020, and there is a reward of up to $5,000 should that information lead to identifying a suspect.
